Badgerys Creek Pro & Cons: Part 2

Subject: Stateline Programme ABC TV Fri 17 July 1998

Date: July 18, 1998 16:26

Stateline Programme ABC TV Fri 17 July 1998

INTERVIEWER: Quentin Demster

TOPIC: Sydney's Second Airport/Badgerys Creek.

QD: Once it was all so decisive, once it was going to happen

Cut to 1984 Newsclip: "Now the government says it has two possible sitesfor a second airport. Badgerys Creek is an area of rural land surrounded by other farmlets and other operations compatible with an airport. To buy the land would cost $60 million. "

Cut to Kim Beazley (back when he was Aviation Minister): People have mucked around with this issue for far too long, and very good potential sites including some of those that we looked at ……. (static) have been ruled out by the way in which Sydney has developed over the last few years."

QD: Kim Beazley in full decisive flight. Fourteen years later we're still waiting. But the crunch is coming, with the release of the final environmental impact statement on Badgerys Creek airport expected in about six months -- there'll be a lot of standing up and being counted. The Draft environmental impact statement earlier this year raised serious questions about the viability of Badgerys Creek in many minds. These doubters now represent a solid wall of opposition to Badgerys Creek as Sydney's second airport. They include the Carr Labor State Government, the Democrats, the Greens and One Nation, most of the surrounding local authorities, State MPs and Federal MPs, including a senior ranked CabinetMinister John Fahey.

Last Sunday, Mr. Fahey, the Minister for Finance, upped the ante.

Cut to John Fahey clip: " I have indicated over the past twelve months, ever since we've seen the draft environmental impact statement, that there are major concerns. In fact, I believe they are envi... there are environmental concerns that have been thrown up to date that make it almost insurmountable for an airport to be built at Badgerys Creek.

QD: "Almost insurmountable" says Mr. Fahey. Although John Fahey has acknowledged everyone has to wait for the final EIS to be tabled, it's left his Cabinet colleague, the Federal Transport Minister Mark Vaile, holding the hottest of political potatoes.

MARK VAILE: "All the way through this process, we've maintained that Badgerys Creek is our number one option and that we are going to complete the EIS process which we're part way through now prior to making that decision. So, our position is that, yes, Badgerys Creek is our preferred option, subject to the satisfactory outcome of the EIS.

QD: Since we last debated the airport issue on Stateline, the protest movement has been galvanised by a specially commissioned opinion poll showing 65 per cent of the locals don't want it. More importantly, a bit over a quarter of those polled said they'd vote for minor parties or independents who oppose Badgerys Creek. This is despite the massive economic injection of jobs and investment a new airport would mean for Western Sydney and Australia's urgent need for an efficient Sydney airport system. So, with nervous Local, State and Federal politicians worrying about their futures, what hope is there of any decision, let alone one which will be in the national interest.

Here to debate the latest moves are Joe Hockey, Chairman of the Sydney Airport Community Forum, an advisory body to the Minister for Transport, and Mark Pigram, a Co-chairman for the Western Sydney Alliance representing ten local councils. Gentlemen, welcome to Stateline. Joe Hockey, THERE IS NO bi-partisan support for Badgerys Creek. The Labor State government has left the Federal Government in the lurch no matter what the economic imperatives are. We've now got the benefit of Mark Pigram's news poll. I bet you a charity dollar, we'll be back here in five years time debating why nothing has happened on a second airport.

JOE HOCKEY: Well if nothing's happened in five years time I doubt that I'll be back and I doubt that a number of others will be back, Quentin. Ah, look, it's quite simple. The State Labor party's policy is unequivocal. It supports Badgerys Creek as a second international airport for Sydney. They've abol……….

QD: And in the EIS process……….?

JOE HOCKEY: Well, Bob Carr can try and walk away from it for political reasons. He's obviously got troubles in NSW at the moment, taking out ads on the radio, but it is fundamentally the point that the Labor Party chose Badgerys Creek as a site, Bob Collins turned the first sod of turf at Badgerys Creek as Minister for Aviation in 1989 and State Labor and Federal Labor are committed to Badgerys Creek.

QD: But what about the Federal Cabinet? They'll go to water won't they? Particularly with the authority and the responsibility of John Fahey, the Minister for Finance, SURELY, having a voice at the Cabinet table?

JOE HOCKEY: Well, someone might need to hold his arm when we're signing the check for Badgerys Creek. But, look, John Fahey is first and foremostthe Member for MacArthur. Badgerys Creek is located in the Macarthur electorate. So I can understand his reservations about Badgerys Creek. I can understand that he said they're 'almost insurmountable' problems in the EIS, but for us Badgerys Creek HAS to be the site. By 2005 Sydney Airport will begin to implode unless there is an alternative site for planes to go.

QD: Can you explain HOW tens of thousands of people have been allowed to build their homes around the Badgerys Creek environs UNDER the flight paths?

MARK PIGRAM: Well, you have to go back to successive State and Liberal, ah, Liberal and Labor governments in relation to that. And I know Joe has been a senior policy advisor to John Fahey, ah, when John Fahey was Premier, when Landcom under the Fahey government was actually purchasing, subdividing and selling off land around the Badgerys Creek area for residential development. It's been a State Government initiative under Labor and Liberal. John Fahey, Nick Greiner and the Unsworth governments -- they sold off the land and now there are 70 or 80 thousand people out there and they are STILL building out there. QD: 70 or 80 thousand people we've built, and all of government levels have built in a resistance movement, haven't they?

JOE HOCKEY: Yes. It's a mistake. I mean, er, it was, er, a major error for governments not… for state governments, and local councils I might add, not to take Badgerys Creek seriously. But no-one has moved into the area adjacent to Badgerys Creek over the last thirteen years without knowing that Badgerys Creek airport was a designated site. I mean, in 1969 Badgerys Creek…………..

QD: But is that fair?

JOE HOCKEY: mumbles something that sounds like "it's fair" or "absolutely"

QD: When the State Government has ALLOWED them to build there?

JOE HOCKEY: Absolutely. Absolutely

QD: That is they weren't warned.

JOE HOCKEY: Quentin, Badgerys Creek was first mooted as an airport site in 1969. That was the first time it was mooted as a site. The Federal Labor Government designated it as a site for a second international airport in 1986. Now I have NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER for people that have moved into the area adjacent to Badgerys Creek. And I wanna make this point. And Mark knows this all too well. That the leaders of the Western Sydney Alliance against Badgerys Creek are Holroyd Council and the boundaries of Holroyd Council are located CLOSER to Kingsford Smith Airport than they are to Badgerys Creek. There's closer to Kingsford Smith Airport………….

QD: I think ………you tried to make that point last time we talked about this.

JOE HOCKEY: That's an important point……(whineing tone)

QD: Mark Pigram?

MARK PIGRAM: Joe did try to make that point last time and the reality is that's wrong. Two thirds of the Holroyd community, and if you want to just focus on Holroyd, but I'm here as a representative of the Western Sydney Alliance. But if you want to just focus on Holroyd, two thirds of the Holroyd Council area are within the 70 dB(A) levels from Badgerys Creek, NO area of Holroyd Council is within the 70 dB(A) noise parameters for KSA. But taking on that challenge that you put up at the last, at our last discussion, Holroyd Council sent a letter to the Sydney Community Forum which you are a chairman of, in March this year, asking you for our acceptance to be a member of your community committee. We haven't even got a reply, let alone acceptance to your committee. And we did it for two reasons. One, because of what your proposition was and we still reject it, but secondly because you're the arch advocate for Badgerys Creek airport. We felt that it was appropriate that we have a place on your community forum and you have not accepted us on that forum.

JOE HOCKEY: Sure. And I won't. I've got a forum of 25 people. I'm trying to keep it smaller than the United Nations general assembly at the moment and, ah, as far as I'm concerned I can't take some Western Sydney councils seriously when they are actually located closer to Kingsford Smith than they are to Badgerys Creek. Now, (talks over the top of QD) we are talking about 65,000 jobs, direct jobs, in Western Sydney, Quentin. 65,000 direct jobs as a result of Badgerys Creek airport. And, as SO MANY people are saying, jobs in western Sydney means giving the kids out there some sort of future. And what are you going to put at the Badgerys Creek site if you don't put an airport there? Housing!

MARK PIGRAM: Quenton, could I just say, there's a number of facts he's just raised there. One, Joe, you're the Member for North Sydney, you're not the Member for western Sydney. You've got your geography wrong. We -- Holroyd is not closer to, ah, KSA, than what we are to Badgerys Creek. Go and look at a map. You'll see (Hockey interrupts) that (Hockey interrupts again saying, "I have") you'll see that we're not. (Hockey interrupts again saying, "I have"). Secondly, in relation to your proposal for, as being the arch advocate of Badgerys Creek you are presenting to the community really the Hocker (presumably he meant to say Hockey) Horror Story. Because what you are doing, you are knocking out 20,000 jobs at least, relatively good jobs, full time jobs in the inner city. You are knocking out 5 billion dollars, conservative estimate in the EIS documents themselves, of business economic activity in the inner city and then you are destroying the environment of the people of Western Sydney. Now as for your jobs -- the 63,000 jobs -- if you go through your EIS documentation, and you, you, you carry your badge with that, there your EIS documentation shows that there is only 18,000 people employed at Mascot right now. The, ah, Institute of Transport Studies in 1996 did an economic study of KSA and they said for one job at Mascot there is one job external job created. And…..

QD: What you're saying is the EIS, ah, the economic benefits for Badgerys is a beat up?

MARK PIGRAM: Absolute beat up.

QD: Right. OK.

MARK PIGRAM: If you've only got 36,000 people employed at Mascot and around Mascot now related to the airport, how are you going to get 63,000 people out at Badgerys Creek?

JOE HOCKEY: Well…. Ah, I mean, fundamentally because, Quentin, we are talking about the most significant piece of transport infrastructure in Australia at Badgerys Creek. The most significant piece of transport infrastructure. I mean, we're not going to lay the piece of tarmac and put a lean-to up. It is going to be a massive piece of infrastructure that generates jobs, that creates wealth for people in western Sydney.

And it's ironic that Western Sydney councils are campaigning against it out there because……..

QD: Because their communities DON'T WANT IT! Because of all the noise pollution that the inner city (Hockey tries to talk over the top of Quentin Dempster) that the inner city residents have confronted…….

JOE HOCKEY: Sure. In 1991 western Sydney councils were launching a national campaign to have Badgerys Creek upgraded from a general aviation airport to an international airport. Why is it that all of a sudden………. when the Labor party was in government Federally they wanted an international airport instead of general aviation, now there's Liberal government in Federally, they don't want ANY airport.

QD: That's true, er, the councils have changed …………

MARK PIGRAM: Councils changed their position in March 1996. There was an escalated position put up by the councils of western Sydney (Hockey interrupts) in 1991 to upgrade that airport. In March 1996 there was a change of government. Prior to the change of government the proposal for Badgerys Creek was a low scale back up airport for KSA. March 1996 John Howard introduced the 3-options for that site, a major escalation of that airport beyond any scale of plan that was originally (indecipherable word) and that is why western Sydney councils previously supported the lower scale came out in support. Now, Quentin, I think that this is absolutely relevant to this entire debate here. In the Australian newspaper on 31 August 1996, Joe Hockey, in being asked about Holsworthy airport, said "I personally do favour Holsworthy over Badgerys Creek because primarily Badgerys Creek is a land-locked airport. One of the advantages of the Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport is half the aircraft fly over water and that is the same with Holsworthy where half the airport runs up to the national park into the sea. Badgerys Creek, no matter where you fly, at some stage you'll be flying over residential homes. (Hockey interrupts). 1996 it was quite true. But you'd say as far as you are concerned, flying over residential homes is OK in western Sydney but it's not OK in the inner city.

JOE HOCKEY: Where dya wanna put the airport? Eh? Where dya wanna put a second international airport?

QD: Not at Badgerys Creek by the looks of it. (Hockey tries to talk over the top of Dempster)

JOE HOCKEY: I, you know, this floating idea of, tied down of, by a couple of knots off the coast of Sydney, I mean, where do you want to put the second international airport?

QD: Joe Hockey, John Fahey seems to think a new, a very fast train would make Newcastle, Canberra or Albury viable alternative sites. Those with reduction of the pressure on Kingsford Smith and other airport sites outside the Sydney basin.

JOE HOCKEY: Well, Quentin, ah, the furthest airport from the major international cities is Narita which is 62 km outside of Tokyo. Ah, once you start going beyond that you are creating a white elephant. It won't work. People won't wanna go there. And it…. We have to focus on what travellers want, how you get freight into a city, how you get, ah, you know, emergency parcels, emergency supplies into a city. Anything outside the Sydney basin isn't going to work. That's why the Labor party's policy at their last national convention was, we can't have an airport outside the Sydney basin. They know it, we know it. Mark over here is talking about local interest. I'm focusing on national interest. What is a problem at Sydney airport is a problem for Australia. And someone has to have the guts to stand up for the long term interests of Australia ("Austraya")

QD: Well, Joe, we've got local MP's…..(tape ends very close to the end of the interview)

Credits: Transcript - JB, HTML - KD.

Bankstown & Environment Airport Resistance

Last Revised p>Last Change: vdeck mod